Curse

TheodenKing · Mar 30, 2009, 02:16 PM // 14:16

/signed

Frostmaw's HM... 5 level dungeon after a walk across Jaga Moraine... 2 onyx... lovely.

maverickthewolf · Mar 30, 2009, 02:37 PM // 14:37

/signed

Example:
You spend 2 hours and 2+ consets doing Vloxens Excavations and get a pair of diamonds in the end.

MithranArkanere · Mar 30, 2009, 03:19 PM // 15:19

They diamonds. Treasures usually have diamonds.

That makes me wonder why Chests do not usually have rare materials, if they ever have.

I won' mind reducing the drops of them in dungeons, if they add small chances of getting some rare materials in chests too.

SurareVaera · Mar 30, 2009, 03:29 PM // 15:29

Just before the release of GW:EN, diamonds had no known use and onyx were nonexistent. The Eye of the North expansion has now been out for about 18 months. People can fill out their hall of monuments with destroyer weapons very cheaply now, which is fine. However, many people that continue to play dungeons either honorably or through runs do so for a chance at the unique rares from the end chests. At the inception of EotN, Onyx were 15-20k, but EotN has aged since then and there is no longer any need for a massive influx of gemstones.

Personally, I've been frequently fighting through HM Darkrime Delves (1 hour) and HM Frostmaw's (80-90 min) with a full party in the hope that a Cobalt Staff, Violet Edge or Silverwing Bow will drop with no success in over 50 dungeon clears. The amount of gemstones I receive is staggering and rather discouraging. I get the impression that I'm playing a lottery or a slot machine, grinding until I get a payout. It seems Anet has designed EotN to keep you sitting at that slot machine, knowing that you have to keep playing to hit the jackpot, a rare unique to a particular dungeon. I don't do voltaic spear runs or underworld speed clears, and I don't have any control of overfarming there. However, over 18 months I have done many many HM dungeons (2 characters with Legendary Master of the North) with very little to show for it besides gold. It's incredibly frustrating and unsatisfying.

One of the reasons I purchased Guild Wars was to avoid the grind that plagues many multiplayer online games. Considering that Anet does update their games frequently, and is hopefully seeking input for Guild Wars 2, I feel like it is constructive to voice my concerns about the current lottery system of dungeon chests with low frequency unique items. I am hoping that limiting gemstone drops to a maximum of one per dungeon chest will be a small fix to reduce some of the frustration in a game on extended life support where new content is not expected.

Kattar · Mar 30, 2009, 03:40 PM // 15:40

You've hit the nail on the head as far as GW:EN goes. Sorry it took you that long to figure out the slot-machine style of the game, as you mentioned. But that's a good analogy of what it is.

dasmitchies · Mar 30, 2009, 03:49 PM // 15:49

I could care less if crappy golds pop or worthless greens for that matter. If i can't use them for my heros, Ill give them away to others who ned them. But these gems are just so out of control. Keep the drop rate in COF, but lower it in the harder dungeouns at least. Those of us actually fighting the dungeon would like a real reward even if it isn't valuable. As for those whop invariably call for nerfs, what are you going to do nerf every farming build? Good luck, there is at least 50 skills to change to make an anti=farming nerf stick. I doubt ANET wants to alienate that many people before GW2.

drunknzelda · Mar 30, 2009, 03:50 PM // 15:50

Well I agree on the fact that when a "Diamond" or "Onyx Gemstone" drops, it looks expensive, but you'll just be disappointed. If you think rationally, how can a diamond be worth less than a monstrous fang or something of that sort? The reason why rubies and sapphires are still a few K is because they don't drop from chests, you actually have to work to get em, so it would be nice to see the same for the other gems aswell. Maybe give them some other use too, Destroyer weaps aren't in my top 10 pretty list. As for running dungeons, I don't know why people have a grudge against it, I've done most of the dungeons myself but i.e. Vloxen was a bit too hard, and a runner is a great solution then. But joining a run because you "have a chance of getting a rare weapon!" is just retarded, I wonder what the drop rate for such weapons are, maybe 0,2% or less?

Overall, /signed for gems.

Kook~NBK~ · Mar 30, 2009, 03:51 PM // 15:51

And replace them with what?

More common golds that may or may not be merchant fodder? - YAY for the +1 to wisdom title track!!

More rare skin drops? Buh-bye to the 100K+ voltaic spears & hello to all the QQ farmers coming here to whine about how the price of them has crashed!

/not signed

cognophile · Mar 30, 2009, 04:32 PM // 16:32

/notsigned

If overfarming is the problem, then increasing the rewards for farming is not the answer.

HawkofStorms · Mar 30, 2009, 04:45 PM // 16:45

/notsigned

Supply and demand.

Diamonds in particular have only a few very limited uses. This should not be surprising.
How fun something is is not equal to how much money you can make off doing it.

Plus, even if you reduced the drop rates, prices wouldn't raise overnight as there is still a massive oversupply of diamonds.

FengShuiDove · Mar 30, 2009, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Yes, it is indeed frustrating. But to be perfectly honest, people are enraged about the "grind" these days and the lower prices of Onyx and Diamonds have severely lessened the grind necessary to fill a HoM. The other day I had some loose cash and was planning on getting a new Destroyer weapon to toss in my hall. After paying for it and realizing it cost me, in total, about 15k, I decided to go on and buy the other 7-8 necessary to fill my hall. In some ways, it's a good thing, although when you get to the end of Slaver's HM 2 people and 6 heroes and get 2 Onyx, yeah, it sucks.

I wouldn't be against raising the drop rate of random golds/dungeon greens and lowering the chance of Onyx/Diamond, so long as the rare items stay at the same rate. So instead of:

35% gem, 50% random gold, 12% green, 3% rare,

25% gem, 55% random gold, 17% green, 3% rare.

I dunno. I've done all but one of the dungeons with worthy drops in HM, and have gotten absolutely nothing to show for it either.

Shadowhaze · Mar 30, 2009, 06:40 PM // 18:40

/not signed.

If you want a fix, go to the source of the problem - overfarming (as already said).

Does it stink to get double gem drops from an end chest? Yep. But there's the lovely randomness of the chests. Deal with it? lol.

Seriously.

Proff · Mar 30, 2009, 08:04 PM // 20:04

It wouldn't be a problem if there was a need for the gems. Sad really.

Scythe Of Thunder · Mar 30, 2009, 08:49 PM // 20:49

The real problem is the same one facing ectos and z-keys. The supply is way more than the demand. Rubies and sapphires maintain their value because there is no way to really farm them so the lack of a sink for them is not really noticed. However for onyx and diamond, beyond filling up you HoM there is no sink for them. There needs to be either a way to use them (new armor skin or some other thing like that) or a drop in their supply so that they stabilize at a price that is more reasonable (much like jade and amber did after the title changes).

Proff · Mar 31, 2009, 10:52 AM // 10:52

Making destroyer weapons dedicated or somehow allowing your othe characters to use them would be a great start.

Puebert · Mar 31, 2009, 11:28 PM // 23:28

/signed

If you are "honestly" playing through the dungeon (Not 600/smite or Perma Running) you shouldn't get punished because other people do.

kazjun · Apr 01, 2009, 01:44 AM // 01:44

lol, and some players wonder why no one actually does dungeons anymore. Plenty here seem to complain that it'd reward farmers and those who get run. BS. The farmers do tons of trips so the volume of what they get means this just annoys rather than hurts them. Same with guys doing stuff like cof runs. You get paid like 1.5k by the game to do the quest so on average you need to make 500g or so on white crap you pick up to break even. After that, all profit. On top of that you got dwarf and EV points and a chance for rubys/sapphires/polymock piece so what you get in the end chest don't matter (except for the polymock piece).

But for people who actually do what so many of you say and "play the game for your self"? Most dungeons are quite a distance from town. If you're not running, the grind of getting to places (and killing everything in your way) like frostmaws/rragars/kathandrax is pretty high. Than you get to the dungeons themselves. Rragars is full of patrols and pop ups and just trudging through there took me longer than doing frostmaws. And kathandrax? Go with your guild cause going there h/h is a nightmare. Nm was easy, but hm? If there was a bitchslap emote I'd be doing it to all my h/h after just about every encounter. I mean, hello? Firestorm falling on your head. And it actually starts hurting in HM. How about not standing there? Do I have to micro all of you?

Then after all that, you get to the end and get? A diamond and an onyx. And to add insult to injury, you get the same points as if you had done cof. I reckon I could do cof at least 4 times and with 1/100 of the annoyance in the time it took to get to and do kathandrax. And if I got run? Probably more than that. No loot, no points. Mucho annoyance. Finish my books and never went back alone. And the few times I went with mates, still annoying. The only fun bits were laughing at them when they got surprised by the bosses giant flaming boulders (which I may have forgotten to tell them about, hehehe). Sure, I could probably build a better team and get better if I do it more. But why?

High gem rates hurt guys who actually play the dungeons more than guys who run or farm. Ever wonder why dungeons are getting farmed and runners are everywhere yet no one actually wants to play dungeons? Cause everyone who actually wanted to play did it already in the first month or two and since then there has been no actual incentive to play something that is more chore then fun, and for no reward. Think about that before you just go 'play it yourself'.

/signed
Leave cof as is, but the others? Especially in HM? Reduce the gem drop rates. Just a plain wisdom point or two is worth more than this crap, or even greens.

RupDur78 · Apr 01, 2009, 02:32 AM // 02:32

You guys Realize that the only thing Diamonds and Onyx Gemstones are used for is the Fugly Destroyer weapons (yea you can make a useless summoning stone with a diamond) but who cares i mean really the destoryer weapons were ugly to start with and makeing them worth something by makeing diamonds and onyx gemstones worth something is worthless. because the only reason people got them was for there hom

BadgerznPie · Apr 02, 2009, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Eh. It doesn't really seem like it's unfair when people overfarm dungeons to make the gems worthless. But then again, there's also not really anything wants to use them for except HoM. I still say /notsigned.

DragonRogue · Apr 08, 2009, 10:14 AM // 10:14

Seems to me that everyone here assumes that people want the drop rate cut because the gems are worthless. Maybe im the only one who would rather see the drop rate cut because i want the gold weapons for my Wisdom title. Crappy skin, req, or not. 8 of us did Frost Maw, of the drops, 1 green, 5 golds, 10 gemstones. We felt cheated because we couldnt do a thing with the stones and were envious of the few who at least made one more point towards a title.

/signed if for none other than to replace it with more crappy golds for us to ID.